Legislature(2001 - 2002)
08/07/2001 10:00 AM Senate ARR
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
JOINT MEETING
ADMINISTRATIVE REGULATION REVIEW
August 7, 2001
10:00 a.m.
HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Lesil McGuire, Chair
HOUSE MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Joe Hayes
SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Robin Taylor, Vice Chair
SENATE MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Lyda Green
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Con Bunde
Senator John Cowdery
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
THE EFFECTS OF TITLE 17 ON FLOATPLANE OPERATORS AT LAKE HOOD
PREVIOUS ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
MORT PLUMB, Director
Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
PO Box 196960
Anchorage, Alaska 99519
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed the audit and the new draft
regulations.
ANDY HUTZEL, Leasing Officer
Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
PO Box 196960
Anchorage, Alaska 99519
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information regarding the
regulations.
FELIX MAGUIRE, Director
Alaska Airmen's Association
3801 Patricia Lane
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with the regulations.
ANDY ANDERSON
2527 Arlington Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99507
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with the regulations.
HOWARD HUNT
6924 E 6th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with the regulations.
VINCENT HUEBSCH
5207 Red Ricks Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with the regulations.
JOHN PRATT, Field Director
Seaplane Pilots Association
1557 Sunrise Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with the regulations.
DENNIS GEARY
9248 Campbell Park Terrace
Anchorage, Alaska 99515
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed why the regulations came about.
STEVE HULSEY
Lake Hood Pilots Association
4821 E. 104th
Anchorage, Alaska 99507
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed the regulations.
KARL JOHNSTONE
2015 Merrill Field
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with the regulations in
regard to the usage requirements.
TOM GEORGE, Alaska Regional Representative
Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association
(No address provided)
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed AOPA's concerns with the
regulations.
TED DARBY
PO Box 190628
Anchorage, Alaska 99519
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with the regulations.
MARKO RUSTY HAYES
910 Southampton Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with the regulations.
CORKY CALDWELL, Operations Manager
Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
PO Box 190629
Anchorage, Alaska 99519
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information regarding the
regulations.
ROGER CONNOLLY
2803 McRae Road
Anchorage, Alaska 99517
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the regulations.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 01-14, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR LESIL McGUIRE called the Joint Committee on Administrative
Regulation Review to order at 10:00 a.m. Representative McGuire
was present at the call to order. Senator Taylor arrived as the
meeting was in progress. Representative Bunde and Senator
Cowdery were also in attendance.
THE EFFECTS OF TITLE 17 ON FLOATPLANE OPERATORS AT LAKE HOOD
CHAIR McGUIRE announced that the committee would be discussing
the effects of Title 17 on floatplane operators at Lake Hood.
She explained that the meeting is taking place because concerns
have been expressed regarding the Title 17 regulations. These
regulations began the drafting process back in 1995, and have
been the source of much controversy over the last six years.
Number 0027
MORT PLUMB, Director, Ted Stevens Anchorage International
Airport, Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
DOT&PF), informed the committee that this process began back in
1995 [due to an audit by] the Joint Committee on Legislative
Budget & Audit. The purpose of the audit was to determine what
types of services are provided at Lake Hood. "The audit found
substantial abuse of the floatplane tiedown permit system and an
apparent policy of non enforcement of tiedown regulations by
airport management," he said.
MR. PLUMB read the following testimony into the record as
follows:
DOT has taken a number of steps over the past six
years to overcome numerous historical problems,
improve Lake Hood operations and ensure [that the]
Lake Hood tiedown program provided fair, equitable,
and maximum use of facilities.... Substantial abuse,
noncompliance, and circumvention of the old floatplane
tiedown system were documented by the Legislative
Audit Report of March 17, 1995:
For example:
- Tiedown Sublease: Numerous permittees did not use
their assigned slip anymore, or only used the wheel
tiedown portion of the area and illegally rented out
the floatslip.
- Aircraft Sale: The permittee sold his or her
airplane and the nontransferable floatslip together.
- Aircraft Leases: Numerous permittees would purport
to "lease" an aircraft but actually let the lessor
owner operate it from the floatslip as a means to give
beneficial use to the owner in exchange for some
financial or other benefit to the permittee.
- Misrepresentation of Facts: Many permittees would
camouflage aircraft ownership by stating that the
permittee is the aircraft owner while another
owner/aircraft used the nontransferable floatslip.
The permittee would normally receive financial or
other benefits. Numerous permittees would falsely
sign the annual "I will comply" statement to certify
[that] they had a pilot or current medical
certificate. A review of the FAA records documented
[that] 47 people out of the 100 permittees surveyed
did not have a current medical certificate.
Additional reviews documented that some floatplane
permittees had only a student pilot certificate (for a
number of years) and no float rating.
A number of airport actions were taken in direct
response to the Legislative Audit Report of March 17,
1995, which called for a number of changes, including
the adoption of new policies, regulations, and greater
enforcement action. This Legislative Audit Report
noted: "the Airport can anticipate significant
resistance in beginning an enforcement program."
In accordance with the Legislative Audit's general and
specific recommendations, DOT [&PF] drafted new
regulations with considerable public input. A public
notice was issued on February 28, 1997, which made
these new draft regulations available to the public.
After receiving considerable additional public input,
a second draft was made available to the public on May
2, 1997, and then again on March 19, 1999. Each time
the department provided another opportunity for
further public comment. Supplemental public notices
were then made available to the public on April 29 and
October 29, 1999, again seeking public comment each
time. In addition to the public notices and copies of
the regulations, on April 2, 1999, the airport also
made available to the public and posted a fact sheet
on the Internet that described the major differences
between the former and proposed regulations. The
proposed regulations also provided transition
procedures to allow the airport users a fair,
reasonable, and safe opportunity to transfer from the
former system to the new system.
In addition to regulatory changes, a new Lake Hood
office was established to improve the management of
Lake Hood and [be] more responsive to general aviation
permittees and applicants. The airport also concluded
numerous meetings with Lake Hood aviation community
and aviation groups such as the Airmen's Association
and the Lake Hood [Seaplane] Pilot's Association to
improve communications, "partnering," and [to] solicit
recommendations.
It should also be noted that numerous facility
improvements have been completed at the Lake Hood
Complex such as:
- a new parallel taxiway by the Lake Hood Strip
- new water/sewer installation
- lighting upgrades for the main takeoff channel
- stabilization of the main takeoff channel banks
We've also taken steps to add additional parking for
floatplanes by dredging three previously unusable
floatslips at Lake Spenard, and this year we will
shortly open a new "Delta" area which will provide 11
additional parking positions with electrical power and
close and convenient [access] to Lake Hood.
We have also expanded the number of transient parking
[areas]. For example, six years ago, there were only
two transient parking spots for floatplanes and today
we have ten, with the ability to assign transients to
the permitted floatslips that are temporarily vacant
through our "Lake Hood Management program." It should
also be noted that we have reduced the wait list time
by approximately 30 percent from approximately 18
years to a little less than 12 years.
Lake Hood Seaplane Base is different from other
airports, with issues unique to Lake Hood. Among
other things, because the lake's perimeter defines the
limited number of float tiedowns available, and
because there is a huge demand for those limited
tiedown spaces.
The new [Title 17] regulations are the result of an
extensive public process and corrective action taken
in response to the '95 legislative audit. Due to the
high demand for Lake Hood permits - and a wait list
today of nearly 200 applicants - the new regulations
specifically regulate the issuance of aircraft tiedown
permits in a manner that provides for a fair, pilot-
focused program that reasonably limits tiedowns to
airmen who, by training, are fully qualified,
according to FAA regulations, as solo pilots of their
own leased aircraft. It is reasonable and prudent to
grant a permit only to a pilot who owns or leases a
one-third interest in an airworthy aircraft and holds
a private pilot certificate and current float rating.
In fact, it is very important that such rules exist
and be enforced. The department has a responsibility
to make sure public-asset float spaces are not tied up
for many years in the hands of those not using the
floatslips or rarely fly from them, while active solo
float pilots wait those many years on a list, and miss
the chance to have a permit during their most active
flying years.
Some have suggested [that] we should only require
float slip permittees to have a student pilot
certificate. On the surface this may seem reasonable.
However, upon closer review, historically, this has
been an area of abuse. The student pilot certificate
can be obtained easily by just getting a third class
medical certificate and submitting an application to
the FAA. The FAA in turn provides this "beginner's"
certificate for the express purpose of gaining a
pilot's certificate in a reasonable amount of time.
Yet, we have documented permittees with student pilot
certificates who do not have or have not flown in
years, and instead used the student pilot certificate
as a "loophole" to stay qualified as a Lake Hood
permittee for other purposes. As such, these
individuals previously circumvented the regulations
and waitlist, and subleased their floatslip. The new
regulations address this problem by requiring a pilot
certificate, which we believe are reasonable and fair.
There is also a safety issue here. It is assumed by
the FAA that student pilots are just that and are
under frequent instruction. Even pilots today are
required to have a flight review by a certified
instructor every two years for proficiency and safety
training. This is not the case for student pilots.
In fact, student pilots are not even required to
attend ground school or take a written exam as [is]
the case for pilots. Thus, if we were to allow
student pilots to have floatslips, we are in effect
not only facilitating continued Lake Hood abuses, but
if they are flying, we are sanctioning student pilots
to continue aviation activities without any "checks"
in Alaska's most congested airspace and overpopulated
areas.
The issue of having a medical certificate requirement
has also been raised recently. While some have
suggested this is a direct FAA responsibility, which
it is, we would liken it to the rental car business,
which checks your license before allowing you to drive
the car. By ensuring that all our permittees remain
current with their medical, not only are we able to
identify those who are no longer active at Lake Hood,
but this enables us to identify ... a potential area
of abuse. As previously mentioned, during the 1995
legislative audit, a review of 100 permittees revealed
that only 47 had current medicals. To not check for
these minimum qualification standards, facilitates
abuse by people who historically have attempted to
circumvent the "wait list" or [scheme to] allow the
misuse of their assigned floatslip. It should also be
noted that the medical certificate was a requirement
of both the old and the new [Title 17] regulations.
The FAA requires a medical certificate for nearly all
flight activity except for gliders and hot air
balloons. According to FAR 61.23, without a pilot
[certificate] and current medical certificate, one can
only be a passenger and not legally fly the aircraft.
Some concerns have been raised that the transition
time to gain compliance - six months - was not
sufficient to safely transition from "student pilot"
to a "private pilot" with a seaplane rating. As
safety is always a prime concern, the transition time
was actually "pushed" from June 14 until August 14 for
the permittees upon request. This is considered by
most to be more than adequate for safe compliance for
these flight requirements. It should also be noted
that there are only a small number of floatplane
permittees who only have a student pilot certificate -
- and one presumes that they have been flying and not
just a "placeholder" for someone else's unauthorized
use of Lake Hood.
Other specific highlights of the new [Title 17]
regulations that have corrected past deficiencies and
improved the "equal availability" of assets for all
Alaskans. These include:
- It ensures greater use of floatslips by qualified
aviators
- Less restrictive on flight requirements
- Permit period extended from one to five years
- Greater extension period for aircraft and medical
problems
- Improved "stewardship" of the valuable resource
We believe that Title 17 regulations best serve the
public interests and the State of Alaska. To begin to
change the new rules would probably not be in the
public's best interest and counter to the
recommendations of the 1995 legislative audit.
Further, any change or suspension of these regulations
would require a new public process consistent with the
Alaska constitution and the Administrative Procedures
Act.
Although we continue to consider comments and ideas
for improving the program, at this time, we believe
Title 17's tiedown program best carries out the 1995
legislative audit's guidance and best serves [the]
interest of the people of Alaska in allocating their
chance to use an extremely limited asset in a fair and
reasonable way. It is clearly a challenge of
"striking balance" between those with floatslip
permittees who want to remain forever and those ... on
the wait list who would like the list to move quickly.
We recognize the problems, we attempt to be
responsible, and we attempt to act in accordance with
the regulations, address all concerns and treat our
customers fairly. We believe, ... despite some minor
issues that need to be refined in the new regulations,
that when viewed in terms of the greater public
interests and the extremely small number of potential
complaints from the some 320 floatslips, 400 wheeled
tiedown positions, and 200 waitlist individuals, that
this suggests that the program is working as directed
by the legislature.
CHAIR McGUIRE inquired as to whether Mr. Plumb had received any
legal opinions. [The committee] has received opinions of the
regulations from various proponents and opponents of the
regulations in regard to the equal protection and due process
clauses of the constitution, as well as the American's with
Disabilities Act.
MR. PLUMB answered that the airport has had extensive legal
opinions. Furthermore, John Steiner, Assistant Attorney
General, Transportation Section, Department of Law, is present
if there are specific questions.
Number 0172
SENATOR COWDERY inquired as to whom the current regulations are
directed.
MR. PLUMB noted that the Title 17 regulations were developed
some time ago for the Administrative Procedures [Act] for
administering the permits at Lake Hood as well as the tiedowns.
The process for the new regulations began after the 1995
legislative audit. The new regulations were merely a refinement
of the old regulations.
SENATOR COWDERY remarked that he didn't see anything wrong with
an owner of a plane hiring a leaseholder that is a licensed
pilot.
MR. PLUMB said that he didn't see anything wrong with that
either. In fact, lease holds exist. However, [the issue here]
is not a lease but rather permits. There are many places around
[Lake Hood] where one can lease a spot. However, he understood
that the legislature viewed [Lake Hood permits] as a valuable
asset and in order to obtain the highest and best use some
standards and qualifications were established. In further
response to Senator Cowdery, Mr. Plumb explained that commercial
slips have a different qualification.
Number 0220
ANDY HUTZEL, Leasing Officer, Ted Stevens Anchorage
International Airport, Department of Transportation & Public
Facilities, informed the committee that he administers the
tiedown program. The current commercial rate is $105 per month,
while a private individual rate is $95 [per month].
SENATOR COWDERY asked if only commercial operators can fly out
of a commercial lease, or can pilots be hired.
MR. HUTZEL answered that pilots can be hired. In further
response to Senator Cowdery, Mr. Hutzel noted that [the
permittees] do have to a medical [certificate].
MR. PLUMB explained that the medical requirement is a FAA
requirement.
SENATOR COWDERY remarked that he couldn't see how the medical
requirement had anything to do with leasing the ground.
MR. PLUMB said that it doesn't. The medical [certificate] isn't
required to lease the ground. However, having a plane in a
commercial slip requires FAA certification.
MR. HUTZEL clarified that commercial or private floatslip
tiedowns are registered in a person's name, not a company's
name, and thus requires a pilot's license and a medical
[certificate]. Mr. Hutzel pointed out that leases are
different.
SENATOR COWDERY inquired as to the difference between slips and
leases. He also inquired as to why slips can't be made leases.
MR. HUTZEL explained that leases require a permitted improvement
on the property in order to obtain a term of lease. The permits
are for a specific time, five years in this case. Under the old
regulations, the term of the permits was one year.
Number 0249
CHAIR McGUIRE recalled that the FAA has a 14-month grace period
for the medical [certificate] if it is failed. She asked if
there was any discussions regarding making the regulations
comply with that FAA standard as opposed to setting out a
different medical standard.
MR. PLUMB remarked that he didn't believe that [the regulations]
are more onerous than the FAA requirements. If someone has a
problem with a medical issue, then that has been worked through.
Mr. Plumb felt that [the airport] has been fairly liberal in
that area.
CHAIR McGUIRE related her understanding then that if someone
with a permit for a floatplane slip fails his/her medical
[evaluation], then the [airport] would allow that individual the
time period allotted under FAA regulations in order to get a new
medical evaluation prior to revocation of their permit.
MR. PLUMB noted his belief that the regulations are silent on
this matter.
CHAIR McGUIRE agreed, and commented that the aforementioned
situation could potentially be in conflict with FAA regulations.
MR. PLUMB said that he would have to research the records.
Without doing so, Mr. Plumb reiterated that [the airport] has
been fairly liberal in allowing people to work through various
medical issues.
CHAIR McGUIRE asked if the airport would feel comfortable
exploring codifying this matter in order to be clear.
MR. PLUMB remarked, "The airport and the airport director is
very sympathetic to medical issues." However, he acknowledged
that the regulations bring the department into the picture, and
therefore many more people would contribute. Again, he,
personally, didn't see any problem. He noted that much of the
airport director's discretion was removed from the regulations.
Number 0311
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE informed the committee that he has been on
the waiting list and currently has a tiedown, which [could be
construed as a conflict]. Furthermore, he noted that he was
involved with the original legislative audit that has been
referenced. In that vein, Representative Bunde said that there
are things in this audit that he would encourage [the airport]
to ignore. In particular, Representative Bunde encouraged
ignoring the audit's recommendation to increase the price of
tiedowns until the demand is diminished.
SENATOR TAYLOR interjected that such methodology is how the
marine highway system is being run and why it is going broke
[due to low] ridership.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE complimented the airport in regard to its
attempts to encourage communication and dialogue. He then
turned to the possibility of the FAA's recreational license and
inquired as to its impact on these regulations.
MR. PLUMB answered that if the FAA says that someone is
certified to fly, then he/she can fly.
Number 0364
SENATOR COWDERY posed a situation in which a pilot is hurt [and
loses his/her medical certificate]. He inquired as to how such
a situation would be handled.
MR. PLUMB responded that [the airport] would review the
situation. If it appears that the medical situation is
something that the individual is recovering from, then [the
airport] would recommend being lenient and work through the
situation. However, he said that he hesitated to discuss
anything that would deal with the role of precedent. Each case
would require careful and compassionate review. He mentioned
that when he became involved with the Lake Hood operation six
years ago, there wasn't a pilot on the staff. Today, there are
many throughout the system. Mr. Plumb acknowledged that there
could always be improvements and refinements. However, he
recommended that the regulations be left for a full year before
any refinements are made.
SENATOR COWDERY posed a situation in which the pilot is hurt in
an airplane accident in which the plane is lost. In such a
situation, what timeframe would the pilot be given, realizing
that he would have to obtain a new airplane as well as recover.
MR. HUTZEL answered that the pilot would have approximately nine
months, 270 days. In further response to Senator Cowdery, Mr.
Hutzel explained that the rationale in such a situation would be
that the [pilot] could either replace the aircraft, repair the
aircraft, or enter into another lease agreement for another
aircraft within nine months.
SENATOR COWDERY expressed his concern with the wait list. He
felt that priority should be given to those that have been
waiting.
MR. PLUMB recalled that there was much discussion surrounding
what would be reasonable and fair [in the aforementioned
situation]. He commented that the airport merely enforces the
[regulations].
SENATOR COWDERY noted that he waited nine years for a boatslip.
The former owner of the slip had merely been paying for the slip
for four years without actually using it and the harbor had been
subleasing it to transients.
MR. PLUMB said that if that were the sense of the public, then
[the airport] wouldn't have a problem with it. However,
striking a balance with the permitting process is more
problematic than dealing with a lease of 10-15 years. Mr. Plumb
pointed out that those who made the regulations determined that
[Lake Hood floatslips and tiedowns] are a valuable public asset,
and therefore there should be high qualifications in order to
ensure the highest and best use. Mr. Plumb remarked that there
are a lot of ways that people can have floatplanes, not just
through the floatslip.
Number 0477
SENATOR TAYLOR noted his assumption that DOT[&PF] drafted the
regulations and chose the nine months.
MR. PLUMB echoed his earlier response that the airport has tried
to accommodate people in these situations. He noted that the
270- day deadline did have public comment from people who are in
the aviation business, but not in DOT[&PF]. Mr. Plumb pointed
out that the airport didn't have a "dog in that fight." Mr.
Plumb agreed with Senator Taylor that the 270-day deadline was
an arbitrary number because a deadline had to be chosen at some
point.
SENATOR TAYLOR remarked that the same need for "a line in the
sand" was utilized with the medical [certificate].
MR. PLUMB related his belief that the medical [certificate
deadline] has possibly been mischaracterized. He explained that
the medical certificate is an FAA requirement that the airport
uses as a driver's license. Therefore, [the airport] assumes
that a pilot with a current medical certificate would be in
compliance with FAA regulations. Mr. Plumb reiterated that the
airport is not more [stringent] than the FAA requirements. The
medical certificate merely functions as a way to check the FAA
requirements.
SENATOR TAYLOR pointed out that other areas in the state don't
use a medical certificate as a requirement to obtain a state
DOT[&PF] floatplane permit.
MR. PLUMB related his belief that in those locations the
individuals would have medical certificate, although it isn't
checked. Because of the high demand at Lake Hood, [the medical
certificate] serves as a way to check qualifications. Anyone
flying in the air should be qualified.
SENATOR TAYLOR agreed, but pointed out that a third class
student pilot can take off in his/her own airplane and fly
around without violating many laws.
MR. PLUMB agreed. Furthermore, it appears that an individual
can apply for a student pilot's license and never fly an
airplane. Therefore, if an individual had a student pilot's
license and was floatplane certified, which means that the
flight instructor signed off on a certain number of hours, that
student could fly alone. However, Mr. Plumb believes that the
student pilot's license is a stepping stone to
a certificated license from the FAA.
Number 0580
SENATOR TAYLOR turned to the required use provision of the
regulations. He referred to page 6, subsection (o) of the
regulations, which reads as follows: "Each permittee on a
permit must fly the permittee's aircraft listed on the permit at
least once from the permit space in each of any three months
during each calendar year ...." He said that the language goes
on to say that the only flights that count are float flights.
"Do we have that any place else in the state," he asked.
MR. PLUMB said that he could answer the question regarding
whether that requirement is found elsewhere in the state. The
original regulations had a six-month requirement, which was
difficult. Mr. Plumb related his belief that even the six-month
requirement would be difficult to achieve because an area may be
lucky to have six months during which the floatplane could be
flown. However, because [Lake Hood] is a valuable asset, the
thought was that if one ties up a floatslip, then that
individual should be using it. Therefore, it was determined
that flying once every month in the float season would be
reasonable use. He noted that there was much input on this
[provision].
TAPE 01-14, SIDE B
SENATOR TAYLOR related his understanding that under these
regulations if an individual has wrecked his/her airplane or
does not have a medical [certificate], the individual still has
to fly the airplane once a month. He asked if one thing [a
wrecked plane or no medical certificate] would excuse a
requirement that is found elsewhere.
MR. PLUMB commented that someone could probably craft a scenario
that would make these regulations look somewhat onerous. Mr.
Plumb pointed out that these regulations were developed in order
to serve the greatest benefit of the citizens of Alaska.
SENATOR TAYLOR pointed out that most of the airport director's
discretion has been taken away and replaced with hard and fast
rules. In Senator Taylor's opinion, [these regulations] are
stacked on one side. He presumed that the [Lake Hood] area
would be patrolled in order to determine who is flying and who
isn't. Furthermore, he assumed that some of that patrolling was
already occurring, otherwise the [airport] wouldn't know about
the abuses.
MR. PLUMB pointed out that the legislative audit suggested that
enforcement had been lax, and therefore the audit suggested
increased enforcement.
SENATOR TAYLOR remarked that in the process of dealing with the
abuse [at Lake Hood], some of the rules are now so hard and fast
that the airport director no longer has the discretion to make
compassionate, reasonable, or necessary decisions. Furthermore,
the regulations include five or six [requirements] that are
unique and different to this particular airport and facility.
Senator Taylor related his belief that someone needs the
authority and discretion to handle the 5-10 percent of the total
number of permits that would need to be worked with on an annual
basis.
MR. PLUMB agreed with Senator Taylor's observations. He noted
that there is an appeal process. Mr. Plumb said that he didn't
know where the enforcement of these new regulations has been
onerous and where the approach has been to merely kick someone
out. He reiterated, "We work very hard in trying, again, to be
compassionate and not totally legalistic with these things. So,
while in the regulations the discretion has been taken away, you
can't take the discretion out of the person and I believe that
we have, as a team, worked very, very well with people that have
unique situations." He acknowledged that there are some that
will exploit that. There is no desire to remove people that are
flying their airplanes.
Number 0059
SENATOR COWDERY turned to the issue of monitoring who flies [and
how often]. He inquired as to how often [the airport] monitors
[how often people are flying].
MR. PLUMB explained that monitoring is part of the normal
[responsibilities] of being the stewards of the Lake Hood area.
He noted that operations officers are on duty 24 hours a day.
In further response to Senator Cowdery, Mr. Plumb clarified that
not every plane [and slip] is checked on every shift. He
mentioned that people around the lake provide help, information,
in this matter. Mr. Plumb felt that "we" have improved the
operation at Lake Hood a great deal.
Number 0075
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE agreed with Mr. Plumb that [the airport]
has tried to be flexible and work with people. However, if the
regulations are tight and Mr. Plumb and Mr. Hutzel are no longer
in their current positions, then others [might] follow the
regulations to the letter. Therefore, he encouraged [Mr. Plumb
and Mr. Hutzel] to recognize that possibility and the need to
maintain some discretion.
MR. PLUMB said that the regulations are being administered
fairly. He acknowledged that in the past there have been people
in positions of authority in the department who have [used their
position to do what they want], and there will always be the
possibility for such. However, close monitoring will continue.
Number 0105
FELIX MAGUIRE, Director, Alaska Airmen's Association, informed
the committee that the association has over 1,500 members. The
association's mission is to enhance general aviation in Alaska.
The association was involved in the review of these regulations
over the years. Mr. Maguire noted the association's strong
objection to any reference to a medical certificate in the
regulations. The association submitted a letter in December
1999 objecting to the medical certificate reference.
Furthermore, a letter was sent from AOPA [Aircraft Owners and
Pilots Association] in July 1999 in objection to medical
certification. In response to Mr. Plumb's earlier comment that
a person would have to have a medical certificate in order to
fly, that is not the case. A student pilot doesn't have to have
a medical certificate until he/she goes solo. Furthermore, the
new recreational float pilot will be sub-certified and thus
won't be required to have a medical certificate. Moreover, an
individual that loses his/her medical certificate can still
manipulate the controls of the airplane provided that there is a
qualified pilot, acting as the pilot in command, who would have
a medical certificate and license.
MR. MAGUIRE remarked that comparing [pilots] to a rental car
situation isn't quite accurate because a rental car doesn't
require producing a medical certificate. Mr. Maguire felt that
a pilot must produce a license in order to fly. Therefore, once
an individual qualifies for a lease, then the individual should
be left to enjoy the lease unless something is done wrong. He
didn't feel that losing one's medical certificate was doing
something wrong. Furthermore, it's an intrusion into someone's
life to [require] a medical certificate. He pointed out that a
person has 60 days to produce a license. If one's license is
revoked or taken away, the regulations state a person has 120
days to obtain a new medical. However, one has 270 days to fix
their airplane. "It doesn't make sense at all," he said. In
conclusion, Mr. Maguire emphasized that the association's
recommendation is to eliminate all references to medical
certification in these regulations. The elimination of [the
airport director's] discretion in these regulations has removed
some of the abuse, he felt. Mr. Maguire said that the
regulations need to be tweaked in order to [accommodate] the
needs of the users of the floatslips. Mr. Maguire noted that he
had submitted a letter to the committee.
MR. MAGUIRE informed the committee that there were two pilots
who went out of state due to family sickness and death. Upon
their return, they found that they had lost their floatslip
because they hadn't used them three times over the summer. One
case was settled by a lawyer, and the pilot obtained his slip
again. Mr. Maguire felt that regulations should allow for
unusual absences without [requiring] the cost of lawyers and the
hassle of court proceedings. Mr. Maguire remarked that part
of the reason behind these regulations was [fill] the unused
spaces so that people would be able to enjoy Lake Hood.
However, there is one floatslip that hasn't been used for 17
years. Such slips are ones that "we need to go after." Mr.
Maguire concluded by saying, "Because of the few who abuse the
system at Lake Hood, we shouldn't take the right away from those
who are trying to do their honest best to comply with what is
required." However, the current regulations don't provide staff
with the flexibility to use discretion and common sense. Rather
than providing the airport director with blanket discretion,
[the aforementioned] regulations should be changed. He offered
to be part of a committee that would review the regulations, if
that were what the committee decides to do.
Number 0202
SENATOR TAYLOR inquired as to whether Mr. Maguire felt that the
medical requirement is an inherent form of age discrimination.
He questioned why a medical [certificate] was one of the
arbitrary determinants for who could or could not hold a permit.
He remarked that a medical [certificate] isn't a big problem for
a [younger] person, but it becomes problematic for [older]
individuals.
MR. MAGUIRE questioned why an individual, who has lost his
medical certificate, couldn't fly out of a floatslip when he/she
could have another qualified individual fly with him/her. He
didn't believe such made sense.
SENATOR TAYLOR questioned why a barrier that seems to target
people of some mature age was chosen.
MR. MAGUIRE commented that [the medical certificate] is being
used as a tool to weed out people and move the [wait] list
along. He felt that it's an intrusion into a person's private
life.
SENATOR TAYLOR pointed out that not only is the medical
certificate required, one must recover from the loss of a
medical certificate in a brief time. Senator Taylor expressed
concern that the [medical certificate provision] of the
regulations would seem to be drafted for the sole purpose of a
discriminatory factor on the basis of age. If that is the case,
the state is in violation of equal protection and probably in
violation of the Americans with Disabilities [Act].
Number 0247
ANDY ANDERSON provided the following testimony:
I represent a lot of pilots on the Ted Stevens
International Airport complex, the petitions in your
packet will verify this. I still have several
petitions out in the field that haven't come in
yet....
For those of you [who] are not familiar with this
airport, we have the international part, Lake Hood
gravel strip [and] Lake Hood-Lake Spenard Seaplane
Base. The international part is no different from any
other airport: Fairbanks, SeaTac, LA, et cetera. The
gravel strip is no different from any other runway
other than it is not paved -- then we have Lake Hood-
Lake Spenard for wheels, skis, and floats.
The DOT[&PF] commissioner has imposed unreasonable
rules and regulations on this airport complex that no
other airport in Alaska or the other 49 states have,
to our knowledge. He said this is due to supply and
demand.
To have a tiedown on this airport, the commissioner
requires you to have a private license and a medical
[certificate], on Lake Hood and Lake Spenard you also
need a float rating. No other airport has these
rules. Fairbanks International Airport and their
floatplane lake tiedowns do not require a license,
medical [certificate], [or] float rating. They also
have a wait list with 60 people waiting for a float
tiedown. You should be able to own an airplane, rent
a slip from the state, and hire a pilot to fly you
around if you so wish. This our right, but the
DOT[&PF] commissioner says it is not our right due to
supply and demand. Hogwash, every operation in this
state is supply and demand.
If I lose my medical [certificate] I have four months
to get it back, [however] serious problems take a year
or more, or I lose my tiedown. I can still fly my
plane legally with a licensed pilot on board. By them
taking my tiedown away they are denying me that right
and discriminating against me. They are also in
violation of the [Americans with Disabilities Act].
Boat slips in Homer, Seward, and Whittier have a wait
list of several years .... You need a boat to get
your slip but once you have it they don't care what
you do.... Your boatslip will be used. You don't
need any Coast Guard licenses, medical [certificate],
or nothing. This is [a] supply and demand [issue]
also. And those can be considered unique, which the
DOT[&PF] says Lake Hood and Lake Spenard [are]; they
are just as unique as Lake Hood and Lake Spenard ....
A person flies off Lake Hood and Lake Spenard on
wheels and skis for seven months and floats four to
five months, yet ... the priority is put on floats
.... A person flying on wheels and skis off that lake
for seven months has just as much priority as somebody
flying off of floats.... Mr. and Mrs. Hunt fly off of
Lake Hood, Mrs. Hunt flies seven to eight months off
of the lake on wheels and skis, her husband has a
float rating and he flies four months on floats. If
Mr. Hunt should lose his medical, she could not
continue to park because she [doesn't] have a float
rating [although she] flies more on skis and wheels
than he does. There's something wrong there; this is
not right.
Federal air regulations state the only people we have
to show licenses and medical to are the FAA, NTSB, and
local and state law enforcement officers. The
DOT[&PF] commissioner requires you to show your
license and medical to get a tiedown. He says this is
voluntary in order to give the privilege of a tiedown.
This is not voluntary, he is requiring you to do this
... if you want a tiedown.... We pay rent for the
tiedown, $95 a month, so this takes the privilege out
of it. Privilege is not defined as paying $95 a
month. The FAA makes pilot qualifications, not the
state. The state's making pilot qualifications are to
be on the lake, having a license, having a medical
[certificate], having a floatplane. They're in the
business of making rules and regulations, not
demanding qualifications.
A student pilot cannot have a tiedown on this airport.
A student pilot license is a license to learn just
like other licenses. I started flying on this lake
many, many years ago and I started on floats as a
student pilot. And I finished up getting a commercial
license on floats. There's nothing wrong with this, a
student pilot should have the same privileges on this
lake as a private pilot.
Now, if they come out with a recreation license here
in the near future, there's no license required. And
a lot of aircraft on this complex [are] going to fall
under ... [those] regs. So, that kind of wipes out
license, medical [certificate], and all requirements.
All you're going to need is a driver's license.
...it's going to affect a lot of the smaller
aircraft....
We need to have a uniform policy [and] rules that
apply to all airports and conforms to state and
federal guidelines. Fairbanks is an example, they
have a wait list but the only requirement is that you
own or lease an airplane. They're doing it the
correct way, like other airports....
I attended most of the meetings the airport had on
rules pertaining to "Rule 17." The pilots that are on
the lake did not get much input into these rules, it
seems like it's slanted more for the people wanting to
get on than giving credit to people that are on the
lake. The audit committee made recommendations and
John Barsalou here in Anchorage wrote all the rules.
As far as I'm concerned, they were shoved down our
throats. And according to the president of the
Airmen's Association, he told me, as far as he was
concerned, they were shoved down their throats.
That's a lot of pilots involved here. We need to get
rid of these rules and operate like a normal
airport.... The rules do not benefit any pilot on the
lake.... Please put a moratorium on these rules,
effective immediately, and the legislature come up
with new and reasonable rules like the other airports
in Alaska and the airports in the other 49 states;
they operate in a more reasonable manner.
MR. ANDERSON informed the committee that he spoke with the
President of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA).
The AOPA president agreed that Mr. Anderson could hire him to
fly him around if Mr. Anderson didn't have a medical
[certificate]. Mr. Anderson mentioned that he took exception to
many of the comments of Mr. Plumb. He also mentioned that many
pilots have left the lake. Mr. Anderson informed the committee
that [the airport staff] looks at every tiedown twice a day,
seven days a week. Mr. Anderson related situations in which
pilots had family emergencies during which their slip was taken.
He related other situations in which pilots lost their slip or
left their slip due to the intimidating letters of [the
airport]. Mr. Anderson pointed out that there is a difference
between a lease and a tiedown.
Number 0410
CHAIR McGUIRE noted that the committee packet contains the
petition and the letter written by Mr. Anderson. She asked if
Mr. Anderson could be more specific in regard to the
intimidating and threatening letters.
MR. ANDERSON said that he could provide the committee with these
letters. The letters would often state that if the individual
didn't comply, he/she could lose his/her tiedown. He pointed
out that although there is good communication, the friendly
atmosphere is missing. In further response to Chair McGuire,
Mr. Anderson remarked that there are some pilots present who
have received letters regarding their medical [certificate]. He
related a situation in which a pilot on the lake flew under a
student license for 30 some years and met all requirements. If
that gentleman was still flying today, Mr. Anderson guessed his
slip would have been taken.
CHAIR McGUIRE inquired as to how Mr. Anderson would combat some
of the problems raised by the airport director [and the
legislative audit].
MR. ANDERSON acknowledged that many of the noted problems are
valid. However, [the airport] should be able to regulate things
such as subleasing without requiring a pilot license, a medical
[certificate], a float rating, et cetera. He discussed the
difficulty in obtaining a medical [certificate] in only four
months. The notion that extensions can be given should be
written in the regulations.
Number 0477
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE returned to the issue of student pilots,
and asked if Mr. Anderson felt there should be some time limit
on how long a student pilot can hold a student pilot's license.
MR. ANDERSON said that he felt it would be reasonable to place
some limit. However, the FAA has no such limit. Mr. Anderson
said, "I think the state has crossed the line from rules and
regulations to qualifications."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE cautioned Mr. Anderson in regard to his
suggestion to have the legislature pen the regulations.
MR. ANDERSON emphasized that someone has to do something.
Personally, Mr. Anderson said that he would like to see all the
regulations thrown out. The policy should be uniform with all
other airports in Alaska as well as the Lower 48. Furthermore,
there is no uniform policy for rent.
CHAIR McGUIRE remarked that the fees that are being charged
probably don't cover the cost. Therefore, the challenge is in
regard to the area being a public asset while ensuring that
access is fair.
Number 0536
SENATOR TAYLOR commented that he didn't find the same standards
being applied to those on the wait list versus those who have
qualified. For example, those on the wait list aren't required
to have flown a float-rated aircraft at least three times each
summer. Senator Taylor said that it appears that [the
regulations] only apply to those that have received a permit.
MR. ANDERSON related his understanding that on the wait list
[the individual] has to have a private license or a student.
However, once the student obtains a parking place [license], "he
is out because he don't have a private pilot's license and a
floatplane rating." He commented on conversations he has heard
regarding increasing the fee charged to be on the wait list in
order to lower the number of people on the wait list.
Number 0597
HOWARD HUNT informed the committee that he and his wife, a
licensed pilot, entered into a lease at the airport in 1983.
They operated at the airport until today. His wife recently
received notice that she is no longer qualified to use their
slip [because] she no longer has a float rating. She can still
fly legally on wheels, but her name has been taken off the
lease, and thus she can't even fly on wheels. Mr. Hunt felt
that the regulations should grandfather in his wife.
TAPE 01-15, SIDE A
SENATOR TAYLOR said, "...not appearing on the permit. It would
seem that, upon your passing, your estate would have 180 days to
clean up the area and get out." Prior to the implementation of
these regulations, had [Mr. Hunt] passed, his wife would've been
on the permit and able to utilize that space.
MR. HUNT agreed. Mr. Hunt noted that his son, who had waited
eight years, was on the lease now. Mr. and Mrs. Hunt waited 12
years to get their current slip, and he wanted to keep it in the
family.
Number 0011
VINCENT HUEBSCH stated that he agreed with Mr. Anderson's
letter. He informed the committee that he [had a slip] for 42
years, but was removed due to the loss of his medical
[certificate]. At that time, he requested a spot on the land,
but he was told that he couldn't have an airplane on the airport
without a medical [certificate].
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if one has to have a medical [certificate]
to be any place else on the airport.
MR. HUEBSCH answered, "That's what he said. You can't be on the
land of the airport."
Number 0030
JOHN PRATT, Field Director, Seaplane Pilots Association, noted
his appreciation of the improved communications with the
management and staff of Lake Hood and Anchorage International
Airport. However, [the Seaplane Pilots Association] disagrees
with DOT&PF's position and the airport's position after the
promulgation [of the regulations]. The [Seaplane Pilots
Association] believes that certain aspects of Title 17 are
onerous and inimical to floatplane owners and operators.
Furthermore, the number of slips at Lake Hood is inadequate to
serve the needs of the public, which has long been recognized in
every master plan for Anchorage International Airport. He
pointed out that every master plan for Anchorage International
Airport has recommended lake expansion and alternatives to the
north and south have been addressed. He said, "The airport or
DOT&PF leadership has apparently opposed these plans, and we
find ourselves in our current situation."
MR. PRATT informed the committee that many in his constituency
have expressed the belief that Title 17 has micromanaged the
demand for the slips rather than [taking] other actions to
increase the supply of slips. The [association] believes that
action is necessary in a number of areas. He remarked that the
failure to resolve certain problems violates grant assurances,
agreements, and could jeopardize future federal airport funding.
Furthermore, the [association] believes that pilot certificate
requirements are improper; requiring a pilot license excludes
student pilots a legitimate and federally recognized certificate
authorizing flight. Mr. Pratt pointed out that student pilots
are the most closely controlled of all pilots. Requiring a
float rating excludes individuals who want to place their
aircraft on floats at the lake and obtain the license with their
own aircraft or use their aircraft with a hired pilot.
MR. PRATT turned to the medical [certificate] requirement, which
the [association] believes to be improper and discriminatory.
The only action that a current medical [certificate] enables is
the signature in the log book documenting the pilot in command.
He echoed earlier testimony regarding the ability of a person
without a medical [certificate] to have someone else in the
airplane as the pilot in command and fly the airplane. Mr.
Pratt said, "[A person without a medical certificate] can do
everything that is involved with the airplane. They can own it,
they can fly it, they can manipulate the controls, they can have
the annuals done, they can make the payments, get the insurance,
all that. None of it depends on having a medical." Mr. Pratt
informed the committee that a new [federal] certificate will
soon be released and it won't require a medical, although it
will require other limitations on privileges. Such certificate
holders won't be eligible for a slip at the lake. However,
aircraft that are currently in this category are in the water.
MR. PRATT noted that with the increase of aircraft costs,
fractional ownership is becoming a more fiscally manageable
method of aircraft ownership. However, Title 17 places
unreasonable burdens and limitations on these individuals.
Therefore, he expressed the need to address joint and sole
ownership requirements for single and multiple aircraft slips.
He also expressed the need for location trades to be easy to
accomplish, although it currently appears difficult. Mr. Pratt
said, "Authorized slip holders and specific individuals have not
changed, you and I could exchange slips. The numbers of people
on the lake haven't changed, only where the tiedown ropes are
tied to the dirt or the water." In closing, Mr. Pratt
emphasized that he is willing to continue to work with the
legislature, DOT&PF, the airport, and others in a meaningful way
in order to help resolve the issues in the best way for all
concerned.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE mentioned that he had a conversation with
Congressman Don Young earlier this year, during which
Congressman Young expressed interest in developing Clunie Lake.
Therefore, he believes that the Seaplane Association and the
Alaska Pilots Association should be in conversation with
Congressman Young. He felt that Congressman Young could move
forward with such development with some encouragement.
MR. PRATT noted that [the Seaplane Association] has actively
worked to ensure that such development comes to fruition.
Furthermore, there is a North Anchorage land agreement that
addresses that. Should Fort Richardson face closure, the
aforementioned development would be a high probability.
Number 0087
MR. PRATT, in response to Senator Cowdery, explained that the
pilot in command has to hold a private pilot's license and be
float rated. In further response to Senator Cowdery, Mr. Pratt
said that these [pilot in command] requirements aren't the same
as those land fields. In fact, an unlicensed individual could
purchase an airplane and have it flown to Merrill Field,
Anchorage International Airport, and let it sit forever.
Furthermore, an unlicensed individual could have a licensed
pilot fly him/her without any problem. In further response to
Senator Cowdery, Mr. Pratt explained that Six Mile Lake on
Elmendorf Air Force Base only requires that an individual be a
green ID cardholder or retired and have an airplane to put there
with insurance for that location. [Six Mile Lake] has a private
association.
Number 0110
DENNIS GEARY informed the committee that he is on the wait list.
He explained that he came down to [the Lake Hood area] after
flying in Fairbanks for ten years, only to face an 18-year wait
list to get onto Lake Hood. The 18-year wait list was
ridiculous, and even worse was that half the spots were empty,
or at least they seemed to be empty. Almost any spot that was
vacant could be rented for about $1,500 for the season. At the
time the rental was about $480, and therefore the owners of the
leases were making a tidy profit. That was the situation that
was to be cleaned up. In regard to the medical requirement, Mr.
Geary pointed out that one must have a medical [certificate] in
order to be a licensed pilot. However, he acknowledged that
someone without a medical [certificate] can own a plane and have
someone [with a medical certificate] fly the plane. At the
time, and even now, the issue is usage. To allow a spot to sit
vacant is wrong. However, he agreed that having some way to
address unique, catastrophic events [would be appropriate] in
order to allow the temporary use of a spot.
MR. GEARY emphasized that Lake Hood is a floatplane base. In
the winter there is a separate system for parking ski planes on
the ice. That [system] doesn't necessarily have a relationship
with a floatplane spot, although it can. Therefore, he felt
that comparing floatplanes to [land planes] is like comparing
apples and oranges. The real challenge before DOT[&PF] is in
regard to vacant parking places, which he felt the airport has
dealt with very well [through these regulations]. Mr. Geary
explained that they were trying to avoid someone having a spot
that they lease to whomever they want, on an influence basis.
SENATOR TAYLOR expressed the need to [ensure] that attempts to
achieve more utilization doesn't result in violations of other
laws [or discrimination]. Senator Taylor expressed his surprise
that the legislature hasn't heard requests from DOT[&PF] for an
expansion of this facility.
MR. GEARY informed the committee that he has spots in both
Anchorage and Fairbanks. Each of the airports face different
problems. The discussion to be more restrictive in Anchorage
was to address past abuses. Mr. Geary acknowledged that it
isn't a perfect system. However, he pointed out that the prior
system wasn't perfect either.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE, in addressing Senator Taylor's earlier
comments, said that the [Lake Hood area] airport has already
reached capacity. He agreed that more tiedowns are necessary,
but they are needed in another location.
Number 0212
STEVE HULSEY, Lake Hood Pilots Association, acknowledged the
exceptional job that Mr. Plumb and his staff did in trying to
straighten out these rules. There were many public meetings
regarding these issues. However, he recognized that there would
never be a happy medium on this issue. He recalled a meeting
from five years ago in which 300 people attended. At that
meeting there was discussion about taking away all the spots and
putting them out to a lottery for management by a fixed-base
operator. No one wanted that situation. At that meeting Mr.
Hulsey suggested forming a committee to work with the airport on
this issue. [From that] a very good working relationship has
been established with the airport.
MR. HULSEY identified the main issue as the medical certificate
requirement. Although he sympathized with those who have lost
their medical [certificate], he saw circumvention of the medical
[certificate] as a [beginning] to all the illegal activity that
was removed with [these regulations].
CHAIR McGUIRE asked if Mr. Hulsey saw any room for improvement
with the regulations.
MR. HULSEY said that there is always room for improvement for
any regulations. However, he pointed out that [the committee]
requested stricter rules than the airport developed, but those
weren't approved by the commissioner. He pointed to the fact
that this country is governed by rules and regulations, top to
bottom. Although he agreed with the need to stay away from any
discrimination issues, he emphasized the need for people to
realize when it's time, due to one's age, to stop [flying].
However, he disagreed with the notion of trying to keep a slip
in the family.
MR. HULSEY, in response to Chair McGuire's interest in his
opinion on the topic of student pilots, echoed earlier testimony
that student pilot's license is a stepping stone to a private
pilot's license. Why someone would want to have a student
pilot's license forever, he didn't know. Mr. Hulsey felt that
having a student pilot's license for an extended time or having
the earlier mentioned recreational license were attempts to
circumnavigate rules and regulations. He said, "A true aviation
enthusiast has no problem ... getting his pilot's license and
going out there and enjoying the skies."
SENATOR TAYLOR expressed concern with his understanding that one
space has been vacant for 17 years. He inquired as to how that
happens.
MR. HULSEY said he didn't know about that situation.
Number 0360
KARL JOHNSTONE noted that he was present on he and his wife's
behalf. He understood the need to address the wait list, and
reviewed the past attempts to address the vacant spots. He
recalled that the first attempt was an affidavit that a person
signed indicating the usage of the space, that the person had a
medical [certificate], and that the person owned a certain
percentage of an airplane. He felt that this affidavit went far
in addressing whether an individual owned an airplane and
whether he/she was float-rated.
MR. JOHNSTONE said that he didn't believe that there was a great
deal of tension between those on the wait list and those who are
legitimately using their floatplane spaces. If an individual
doesn't intend to fly a floatplane and is intended to lease it
out, perhaps those people need to [be removed]. However, those
people who intend to use their [space] for floats, although it
may not be as much as the airport manager would like, those
people should be allowed to keep their spaces. Mr. Johnstone
noted his concern with the issue of usage. He pointed out that
the regulations specify that the plane must be on floats for 90
days between the months of May and September. If one happens to
only fly all of May and part of October, then that person would
lose his/her spot. Furthermore, if one doesn't put his/her
plane on floats until July but leaves them on until October,
then that person would lose his/her spot because that wouldn't
amount to 90 days total. He mentioned a recent letter that went
out forewarning people who may not have put their plane on
floats by July 3rd and thus would be in jeopardy of losing their
space. In regard to possible tension, Mr. Johnstone felt there
might be tension between the airport manager's office, the
leasing department, and the people already on the lake.
MR. JOHNSTONE turned to the issue of how often inspections to
check the usage of floatplanes and such occur. Mr. Plumb's
earlier answer seemed to indicate that there isn't a regular
inspection. However, Mr. Hutzel, Leasing Officer, has shown him
the graph he uses [to track] the checks that are done. Mr.
Johnstone said that checking occurs all day long. Mr. Hutzel
told Mr. Johnstone that two full-time employees patrol the lake
checking whether a plane is on the water, whether it has flown
that day, and whether it is on floats.
MR. JOHNSTONE pointed out that there is a lack of transient
spaces. Therefore, he indicated that one could notify the
airport manager that he wasn't going to use his floatplane
tiedown for say May, June, and half of July and allow it to be
used for other purposes. "Not everyone wants to fly floats all
summer, and it's probably not necessary," he said.
MR. JOHNSTONE related his own experience at Lake Hood where he
has had a spot since 1968. In 2000 he received a letter from
the airport saying that he hadn't used his floatplane enough
that summer and needed to present log books showing exactly how
much he used it. Although he was in Arizona at the time, he
gathered as much information as he could. After providing that
information, he received a letter saying that he had satisfied
the requirements. He spoke with Mr. Hutzel regarding the
checking and how someone could fly in between checks and not be
cited as flying when they did. Mr. Hutzel suggested that Mr.
Johnstone call him each time before he flies, which Mr.
Johnstone viewed as an unreasonable burden. Mr. Johnstone
viewed the usage requirements as subtly targeting those older
pilots that may not be able to maintain their medical
[certificate] or just don't [fly] as often as they did in the
past. Mr. Johnstone concluded by saying that he didn't want to
be restricted on how much he flies, and when the time comes when
he doesn't want to fly floats anymore, [the airport] can have
the space back.
SENATOR COWDERY returned to the issue of the checks. He pointed
out the possibility of people flying in the evenings after the
normal working hours [when the checking occurs]. Senator
Cowdery recalled Mr. Johnstone's situation in which he presented
his log books to illustrate how often he flew. Senator Cowdery
inquired as to whether entries in log books are mandatory.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied no, and commented that he may be negligent
in not maintaining his log book as much as he should.
Number 0499
CHAIR McGUIRE inquired as to whether Mr. Johnstone had any
suggestions for the regulations. She recalled one of Mr.
Johnstone's earlier suggestions to provide others the
opportunity to use a spot while that [owner] is off floats.
MR. JOHNSTONE said that his aforementioned suggestion would be
his primary suggestion. He related his understanding that two
to three individuals devote their time to patrolling, according
to Mr. Hutzel. That resource could be used to do the same in a
manner to open spots to others that want to use them. He
discussed the possibility of having a transient list to be
coordinated with those who don't want to use their space during
certain times. In regard to Representative Bunde's comment that
the lake is full and can't handle more floatplane spaces, Mr.
Johnstone related his belief that there is less usage now than
there has been historically. Furthermore, he felt more
floatplane areas could be opened.
MR. PLUMB clarified that [the airport] doesn't have anyone that
is specifically employed to go around the lake and check 24
hours a day seven days a week. However, there are two
individuals who do so, as available, during their regular work
week.
CHAIR McGUIRE turned to the aforementioned possibility of
expansion to accommodate more floatslips and asked whether Mr.
Plumb cared to comment.
MR. PLUMB noted the complexity of expansion in that one can make
more floatslips, but there is no ability to expand the airspace.
However, there has been a significant increase in aircraft at
the Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport. He mentioned
that the FAA is doing a study [on the use of the airspace]. He
also mentioned the concerns that continued development [of the
Lake Hood area] could result in the area draining. Under the
wetlands permit, he believes there is a prohibition against
putting more total slots in the area. Therefore, if more
floatslips were developed, then some would have to be taken away
from the tiedown area. Moreover, there are no general funds for
the specific use of the Ted Stevens Anchorage International
Airport, and therefore improvements to the airport would have to
be done with the funding from a federal grant or from the
airport revenue. He noted that there is a master plan that will
take a look at this. Mr. Plumb related his agreement with
Representative Bunde that the real solution is to look towards
areas outside [Lake Hood] for more floatplane activity.
TAPE 01-15, SIDE B
SENATOR COWDERY asked if expansion of the float base would be a
bondable situation.
MR. PLUMB said, "Certainly." Currently, Lake Hood is a separate
airport under the FAA, and receives $1 million worth of
entitlements. Although environmental issues alone are
expensive, he felt that could be bonded and the rates raised.
CHAIR McGUIRE interjected the possibility of bonding as separate
areas.
MR. PLUMB related his belief that the best value would be to
build a floatplane base in another location rather than
expanding [at Lake Hood]. Mr. Plumb agreed with Senator Cowdery
in not wanting to lose the distinction of being the largest
floatplane base, which [attracts] tourists. However, he
expressed the need to strike a balance between the public and
the need for safety.
Number 0031
TOM GEORGE, Alaska Regional Representative, Aircraft Owners and
Pilots Association (AOPA), testified via teleconference. He
informed the committee that AOPA has about 370,000 members
nationwide, with about 4,000 being from Alaska. The association
is concerned about some of the provisions of Title 17. He said
that AOPA would support continued work between the local
aviation groups and airport management. Mr. George turned to
the medical [certificate] requirement. He related the
association's understanding that it's the intent to ensure
pilots that have spaces fly regularly and don't contribute to
the vacant space problem. However, it appears that the medical
certificate is being used in an excessive fashion, not to
mention the paperwork that it generates. Furthermore, there
seems to be some disparity in that one who loses a medical
[certificate] is only allowed 120 days to replace it while
someone is allowed 270 days to fix an aircraft that might be
damaged. Moreover, the expected new regulations in the sport
pilot area will even further change the situation. In
conclusion, Mr. George related AOPA's desire to revise the
medical certificate requirement in order to take a step towards
making this more of a pilot-focused and fair [set of
regulations] and encourage efforts, as part of a long-term
solution, to increase capacity in the area or elsewhere.
Number 0059
TED DARBY pointed out that before [the regulations] people on
the wait list could make a selection. However, now people are
told that they have to take [what] comes up, which could mean
more years of waiting. He said that he was concerned with this
change "because we were not given input on it." Mr. Darby
related his view that Mr. Hutzel is in a tough spot because
although he has authority to administer the rules, he works
under a higher authority and thus has no choice in regard to
which rules come to him to be enforced. He found Mr. Hutzel to
be cooperative, helpful, and flexible in administering the
rules. For example, one can't be gone from the lake too much
due to the requirement to fly a certain amount in the summer.
However, one mustn't fly too little either or one would be in
violation of another rule. Therefore, Mr. Hutzel has tried to
make adjustments by asking those who are going to be gone for an
extended period to allow their floatplane spot to be used as a
transient spot during the absence. The problem is that the
transients may steal things.
MR. DARBY addressed occupancy of the lake. He pointed out that
[pilots] have full-operational ability during the day, and
aren't supposed to stay overnight. This fact is well known by
every vandal and crook. Furthermore, the lack of funds for the
police don't allow for adequate patrolling of the area. Mr.
Darby noted that he spoke with Corky Caldwell, Operations
Manager, Ted Stevens International Airport, and the [DOT&PF]
commissioner. During his conversation with Mr. Caldwell, Mr.
Caldwell said that he didn't see anything wrong with someone
staying overnight. However, in a letter dated July 18, 2000,
Mr. Caldwell said, "The commissioner's policy is very clear on
this issue and any temporary or permanent habitation is strictly
prohibited." Mr. Darby informed the committee that a few years
ago, the airport police averaged one plane a day falling victim
to thievery or vandalism. He felt people [being around during
the evening and night hours] would do a great deal of good to
make the tiedowns more secure. Furthermore, there are problems
with the general public walking on the fingers, which are
supposed to only be for plane owners. There is no enforcement
of this.
MR. DARBY related his belief that there is the following
political, legislative problem. He explained that almost every
year the funds that Anchorage collects on the airport runs a
surplus of about $3-$8 million, which is largely from the
commercial [portion of the airport]. At the end of the year,
Anchorage gives that money to Fairbanks. He estimated that over
the years Anchorage has given Fairbanks somewhere between $50-
$100 million, which he resented. Therefore, he requested that
be addressed. Mr. Darby informed the committee that "we have
never known where our lots are." Consequently, the overlaps and
under laps are problematic. He asked if the efforts to survey
are progressing. Mr. Darby then expressed concern with the
volume of public traffic that comes out on his finger and
travels up and down the road. In conversations with Mr.
Caldwell, Mr. Caldwell indicated that a gate would be the
answer. Mr. Darby explained that this gate would be permanent.
In conclusion, Mr. Darby remarked that those making the rules
should be participants in what the rules address.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE agreed that those making the rules should
have some practical experience with being a floatplane pilot.
CHAIR McGUIRE reminded everyone of the legislation passed
regarding negotiated rule making, which allows user groups to
come together with the commissioner and staff in order to arrive
at a decision.
Number 0250
MARKO RUSTY HAYES informed the committee that he has had a
floatplane space at Lake Hood for over 30 years. Last fall he
received a letter [from the airport] requesting his log books in
order to determine how much he flew. He called [the airport]
and mentioned that the state wasn't really interested in how
much he flew, and furthermore he had met the other requirements.
Mr. Hayes received a letter from the airport, which included the
following paragraph: "As I explained during my phone message on
our phone conversation, at this time we request you send in
copies of your pilot's log book or a statement indicating the
time and date(s) you used your aircraft tiedown space to fly the
aircraft registered to that space. Please send in the requested
information no later than October 31, 2000." Mr. Hayes didn't
receive this letter until October 24, 2000. He noted that he
did call the airport and respond [by sending a letter], which
read as follows: "My aircraft was placed in the water sometime
in May. It was used on a regular basis until the last week in
September when it was removed from the water for maintenance."
MR. HAYES continued. On December 6, 2000, Mr. Hayes received a
letter stating that his tiedown space at Lake Hood wouldn't be
renewed. He also referred to a letter from the airport dated
February 1, 1999, which stated that a second aircraft,
unregistered, was being parked on Mr. Hayes' spot and didn't
meet the usage requirements. Mr. Hayes hired an attorney, and
after some time the airport accepted his payment for the tiedown
space. "This is ... an example of the kind of compassion that
the airport staff has out here, that [Mr. Plumb] referred to a
while ago," he said.
MR. HAYES stressed his belief that Title 17 needs a major
overhaul. Furthermore, the people supporting [Title 17]
shouldn't be involved in the major overhaul. Although Mr. Hayes
acknowledged that he is getting older, he noted that he has
always paid his bills and complied with what has been asked of
him. He reiterated his belief that the airport has no business
reviewing his aircraft records, log books, et cetera. Mr. Hayes
expressed his desire to know who instructed whom to revoke his
lease. When he spoke with Mr. Caldwell, Mr. Caldwell said that
the [decision] came from the board. In conclusion, Mr. Hayes
said [Title 17] needs to be fixed.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE related his understanding that one only has
to maintain a log book if a rating is being sought.
Representative Bunde recalled a meeting in which there was
discussion about the complexity of trying to keep track of how
often people flew. He thought that idea was dropped.
MR. PLUMB clarified that under the new regulations there is the
requirement to fly three months a year, which was six months
under the old regulations. Mr. Plumb suggested that having
[pilots] sign under penalty of perjury would be an economical
way to deal with this. That information could be selectively
audited. Mr. Plumb remarked that when issues are lifted out of
context, there is usually another side to the story. He noted
that he has heard some things today that will prompt him to
perform additional review. With regard to the [signed
affidavit] under penalty of perjury he felt that would place
everyone on a level playing field.
MR. PLUMB turned to the issue of the checking of how often
people fly. He reiterated that there are no people paid to only
do checking. However, there are two people that perform checks
along with their other duties. Those two people are only
present [checking] 28 percent of the time, and therefore 72
percent of the time no one is checking.
CORKY CALDWELL, Operations Manager, Ted Stevens Anchorage
International Airport, Department of Transportation & Public
Facilities, explained that the inspections are done [in
conjunction] with the normal day-to-day inspections of the
condition of the lake. However, during those normal
inspections, they do check to see whether the aircraft is
present. If a floatslip stays empty for 30 days straight, it's
an indicator that the individual hasn't flown. Or, if an
aircraft that isn't registered to that floatslip, then it would
also be an indicator. In such situations, attempts are made to
contact the person. Mr. Caldwell echoed Mr. Plumb's remarks
that there are no people covering the lake 24 hours a day seven
days a week. Therefore, good records are taken during the
inspections [in order] to help identify problems.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE related his understanding then that the
[regulation] is not in regard to a minimum number of [flying]
hours but rather whether the airplane is available to be flown
for the majority of the float season. He asked if that is the
intent of the regulation.
MR. PLUMB said he believes the intent of the regulation is to
[ensure] the use of a valuable asset. Therefore, the plane
should be there and [can] fly out. The minimum requirement is
to fly out once a month.
Number 0566
CHAIR McGUIRE inquired as to whether Mr. Caldwell would consider
the series of facts and events presented by Mr. Hayes as
abnormal or unusual. She recalled Mr. Caldwell's remarks saying
that they are looking for indicators after which further inquiry
would be made, which is very different from Mr. Hayes' story.
MR. CALDWELL echoed earlier statements regarding the fact that
there is always another side to the story.
CHAIR McGUIRE inquired as to the due process in place for the
permit holders who have an entitlement to the property.
MR. CALDWELL explained that normally, it would move through the
tiedown office where the individual could explain his/her
situation. He indicated that this contact could occur in person
or via the telephone. After that initial [explanation] if other
information is received from other [permit holders], then the
process may be moved to another level in which the log book
entries would be requested. Mr. Caldwell remarked that a
reasonable and compassionate approach is taken in resolving
issues.
CHAIR McGUIRE asked whether any of these procedures are outlined
in a manual that is given to new pilots when they assume their
permit.
MR. CALDWELL answered that there have been extensive briefings
in regard to the procedures and requirements. In further
response to Chair McGuire, he said that he could provide
something in writing.
CHAIR McGUIRE expressed concern with her perception of [the
enforcement of the regulations] being loose. If she were a
permit holder, she felt that she wouldn't really know her rights
and responsibilities. She expressed her desire for the
regulations to lay out [the procedures and requirements] a bit
more clearly.
MR. CALDWELL interjected that a letter is sent as a last resort,
after there have been attempts to personally contact the
individual. In response to Chair McGuire, Mr. Caldwell
confirmed that a file [of contacts and interactions] is kept.
MR. PLUMB informed the committee that when individuals receive
the permit, they receive the full set of instructions that
discuss everything. Administratively, Mr. Plumb felt that [the
permit holders] have been provided the necessary information.
Mr. Plumb pointed out that [the process] is fairly informal all
the way; "none of us like to start the formal process."
Furthermore, [the formal process] goes through Mr. Plumb who
said that he questions whether the individual has been spoken
to, and whether the individual understands the situation before
the [formal process] begins. In regard to whether [Mr. Hayes'
case] is an anomaly, Mr. Plumb felt it was.
CHAIR McGUIRE expressed concern with having a compassionate
airport director who reviews each case individually when the
regulations appear clear, with no discretion or due process
included. Therefore, there is concern as to whether another
airport director besides Mr. Plumb would go to the lengths to
use or not use his/her discretion.
MR. PLUMB acknowledged Chair McGuire's concerns as valid. Mr.
Plumb pointed out that most of the information being discussed
today was included in the old regulations. However, the
difference is that it's being enforced. In regard to the
medical [certificate] requirement, Mr. Plumb indicated that [an
individual] has 16 months [to get his/her medical certificate].
Furthermore, the airport director does have the authority to
waive that portion. He felt that, in most cases, the [airport]
has been fairly lenient on the medical certificate issue. In
regard to the switch list, it is now done on a priority basis.
Number 0611
SENATOR COWDERY returned to the requirement of flying every 30
days, and asked if the individual has to fly off of Lake Hood or
could it be other parts of the state.
MR. CALDWELL clarified that the flying would need to be from
Lake Hood.
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER further clarified that the minimum
requirement for usage is one flight, one time [each month]
during three months of the float season.
TAPE 01-16, SIDE A
MR. HAYES pointed out that [the airport's testimony] has said
that it's not checking. However, no one can tell him who
revoked his lease, although the reason sited was nonuse. He
highlighted the contradictory nature of it all.
SENATOR COWDERY returned to the medical certificate requirement
and asked whether this has ever been challenged legally.
MR. PLUMB recalled that there had been a challenge to these
regulations in regard to the Americans with Disabilities Act,
and the state prevailed. However, he deferred further detail to
be provided by someone else.
SENATOR COWDERY, in regard to the notion of using [an affidavit]
under penalty of perjury, said he didn't feel that was a good
idea. He felt that such language would raise some hackles.
MR. PLUMB agreed that the language did raise some hackles.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE pointed out that when an application is
filled out it has to be notarized, and he understood that
perjury would be involved if one swears to a false affidavit.
Therefore, it seems that path is already being taken.
Number 0670
ROGER CONNOLLY noted that he was in a similar situation because
he had some unfortunate circumstances. He asked if the
legislature could negotiate some usage with the military. He
pointed out that Green Lake is underutilized, as are others.
Use of other lakes would help with the noise complaints.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE informed everyone that [the legislators],
on an individual basis, has been in conversation with the
military and the Congressional delegation. He reiterated his
earlier mention that Congressman Young has expressed interest in
[expanding] to Clunie Lake. He felt that another floatplane
tiedown would help with the [congested airspace].
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the Joint
Committee on Administrative Regulation Review meeting was
adjourned at 1:16 p.m.
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